Top historian Timothy Snyder spoke with Robert Reich late Tuesday about his fears that the United States is committing its own demise as President Donald Trump detonates every relationship the U.S. has built over the past century.
He began with a story about speaking to the Council on Foreign Relations, where he realized that the terms they were using were “a bit mendacious.” The reality, he said, is that the kinds of terms being thrown around regarding the state of the world amid the downfall of American dominance aren’t adequate.
“I think we’re failing to grasp the essence of what’s going on with the Trump regime. And so I wanted to use a term which would actually get to the heart of things,” Snyder said.
It’s why he’s started using the term “superpower suicide.”
“What I mean by superpower suicide is that we are reducing our own power dramatically, both in the short term and the long term by carrying out foreign policy which destroys alliances, by fighting wars that make no sense and then losing them. But, then also, in the long term, by destroying the actual economic and even more fundamentally research and intellectual basis of power,” Snyder explained.
He argued that Trump’s “messing up the economy” will fundamentally destroy public education. Trump’s refusal to fund research at institutions that employ vocal anti-Trump professors is “wrecking research.”
“I use the term, which might seem dramatic, because as a historian I can’t actually think of any examples where a leader has deflated the power of his own country so quickly,” said Snyder. “It’s not the only thing happening under Trump, but it’s a way of talking about what’s happening under Trump, which gets to power rather than to ethics, which, of course, is another very important subject.”
Reich went on to say that the fast rate at which the U.S. is committing “superpower suicide” thanks to Trump is “extraordinary.” Snyder also conceded that he truly believed many of the institutions would be more resilient than they turned out to be.
“As I see these guys — they do not accept something that you and I would accept, which is that the United States of America is a meaningful entity,” Snyder explained talking about the top administration officials. “I just don’t think that Trump and the people around him see the world that way. I think for him, the United States of America is just one more grift. It’s just one more stick.”
Snyder thinks that kind of operation has been a successful and effective one for him both politically and financially. So, while he may wrap himself in the flag, the historian said, “I don’t think he has any notion of or any empathy for patriotism or respect for sovereignty or living inside the law.”
Snyder added that he isn’t shocked to see Trump surrounding himself with like-minded people who make him feel comfortable being that way.
In Conversation with Timothy Snyder: On Tyranny, Trump, and the Midterms by Robert Reich
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Read on Substack