A former federal prosecutor on CNN has said that the Justice Department headed by President Donald Trump is facing an uphill battle in its attempt to prosecute former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson.
Berit Berger told anchor CNN’s Pamela Brown that in order for the prosecutors to obtain charges of lying to Congress, they would have to show that Hutchinson had knowingly made false statements with the intention of deceiving the lawmakers.
“Perjury cases are historically very difficult to prove,” Berger said. “Here, this is not the best of cases.”
Her remarks came after a report by Punchbowl News on Thursday stated that the prosecutors had shown evidence to a federal grand jury in Washington and are looking for an indictment against Hutchinson over her highly explosive testimony about Trump’s behavior during the Capitol attack in 2022.
“Cassidy Hutchinson was not recounting information that she had experienced firsthand,” Berger explained. “She was admittedly talking about things that she had heard — hearsay, essentially.”
Hutchinson, who used to work as an aide to Mark Meadows, then-chief of staff at the White House, stated that Anthony Ornato, a senior official in the White House security team, said that Trump became furious because his Secret Service detail had refused to take him to the Capitol on January 6.
Hutchinson says that Ornato described Trump reaching towards the steering wheel of the presidential car and leaping at Secret Service agent Bobby Engel.
She never said that she had seen the incident herself.
The driver later denied that version of events, saying he saw neither Trump lunging toward the front star nor reaching for the steering wheel.
Yet Berger pointed out that contradictory accounts by themselves would not be enough to prove that Hutchinson had deliberately lied to Congress.
“Essentially, it’s going to be a he-said-she-said,” she said. “She says, this is what the person told me. It’s not, did this actually happen? Did this person tell me that?”
Berger described the possibility of bringing a prosecution as “a really uphill climb” and said it would be “a really difficult case for them to ultimately substantiate.”
The Washington Post states that the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division is in charge of the investigation. Earlier this year, Republican Representatives Jim Jordan from Ohio and Barry Loudermilk from Georgia referred Hutchinson for prosecution on the grounds that she had given false testimony.
In the same CNN interview, Berger also dealt with the accusations concerning Kimberly Guilfoyle, who is Trump’s ambassador to Greece.
CNN anchor Pamela Brown asked Berger directly about whether there is a criminal element.
“From what you know, do you see a possible crime here? What do you make of this?” Brown asked.
“Yeah, I mean, we need a lot more information,” Berger responded. “But this is certainly something that should be investigated. We do not want our public officials offering access to the highest bidder.”
The Journal reported that Guilfoyle asked Deters to send $100,000 directly to American Express to help pay her credit card bill; in a message allegedly sent, she said the payment would not leave a paper trail.
“It won’t show up anywhere if you wire money to American Express,” Guilfoyle allegedly wrote.
Deters, a former Kentucky congressional candidate, had sought her help with legal and tax matters. He told CNN’s Jake Tapper that Guilfoyle offered to be his “ride or die forever in the Trump administration” if he helped her.
Deters said he did not make the requested payment.
Berger said a central question for investigators would be what, if anything, Guilfoyle promised in return.
“Was she promising that policy decisions would go his way? Was she promising that he would get access to people like the president?” Berger asked. “Public officials are not allowed to do that. This has all the hallmarks of a quid pro quo.”
Brown then pressed Berger on whether simply offering such an arrangement could be criminal if Guilfoyle never delivered any favors.
“There has to be some sort of a material step that’s taken,” Berger said.
She also said investigators should look into whether similar offers were made to others and whether “any kind of concrete steps” were taken to grant benefits.
The Journal said Deters had earlier paid Guilfoyle $300,000 for appearances and that the promised favors did not materialize.
These allegations have led congressional Democrats to demand an investigation. Guilfoyle’s attorney has questioned the authenticity of the messages. Guilfoyle has not yet been charged with any crime.