Former European Union Ambassador Gordon Sondland fumbled his way through an interview with CNN host John Berman on Thursday morning about the situation in Iran and the White House’s ever-changing positions.
Berman started their conversation by asking how the ceasefire was going, and Sondland, a former appointee of President Donald Trump, claimed it was “going as expected. A little of this and a little of that.”
According to Sondland, the situation is “dynamic,” and if Trump were truly in control, the last thing he would do is put the 2026 midterms in danger by continuing the war.
“He would have a nice, quiet world where he could coast through and take the House and the Senate,” said the ex-ambassador.
He then claimed that Trump’s hand was “forced” and that he never wanted to enter into another Middle East war, but had no choice.
“And it’s a little carrot. It’s a little stick. Your last correspondent said something about not using experts. They’re using experts all over the place in this thing,” Sondland said, however, the experts he cited were Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, neither of whom have ever dealt with nuclear issues, nor have they ever had formal diplomatic training. Experts told TIME that their inexperience has led to significant missteps in the negotiations process.
Berman then asked whether it was a good ceasefire deal to begin with, prompting Sondland to dodge and about “why they did it,” which is typically when the administration repeats its phrase “Iran can’t have a nuclear weapon.” But Berman wanted specifics.
“No, no, I want to know from you if you think this was a good ceasefire deal. That’s the question,” Berman hammered.
“It’s as good as you could get at the moment, no question about it. Because remember, Iran has a vote in this. Iran has a vote in this. John,” Sondland chuckled.
Berman was curious if that meant Sondland was all that surprised to see the ceasefire fall through. But Sondland pivoted to administration talking points that the war has gone on for 47 years and that neither party could stop it.
“I mean, is this like a fool me once? Shame on you. Fool me for 47 years. Shame on me,” Sondland said.
The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) was the first time the U.S. was able to get a deal with Iran and international inspectors said that it was working. Trump tore up that agreement, saying it wasn’t good enough. Now, he’s struggling to come up with a deal of his own. So, Berman asked why the White House would even move forward with Iran if it knew that there would never be a workable deal.
Berman then checked Sondland by showing off the conflicting takes coming out of the administration with Trump’s remarks on Wednesday and Vice President JD Vance several weeks ago. One day, the White House is singing Iran’s praises, while the next, the president is calling them “scum.” Sondland tried to find a way that both could somehow be true.